Lee Norman was prepared for the possibility that a new and deadly virus could induce a global pandemic long before many people were familiar with the threat that became known as COVID-19. But he was caught off-guard by the governor’s decision to fire him as secretary of the Kansas Department for Health and Environment after managing the state’s response to the pandemic for nearly two years.

Editor in chief Sherman Smith sat down with Norman in his Kansas City, Missouri, loft to talk about his leadership of the health agency, attacks on science, his departure from state government, and what he plans to do next.

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